Jason, nice flight, what power setting do you use cruise? What was your TAS on this flight?

I'd guess closer to $20 each leg due to the loss of time/distance at climb speed and an avg climb rate of 800 is more likely at varying weights in the summer with high DA. For my flying, thats another $5k annually. OTOH, I vary rarely fly in the bumps if I can help it. In AZ and NM (worst thermals due to high ground elevation and heat) that means timing your flights if you are in anything but a jet. Many times the TPs are getting beat to death in the 20s while we are bumping along down low in less headwind. One advantage of the pressure vessel on a 421C is the higher wingloading and smoother ride in bumps. You give this up with a big wing 414a.

If pressure is needed, 421C. You may spend more to run a 414a due to constant engine maintenance issues. Good gtsios are running 330dF CHTs or less in many cases. The nacelles are the best design for any piston twin and they cool without heavy drag.

Pressure is a great and the Golden Eagle is the King Daddy of all pistons. For my mission, it doesn't work and the Navajo wins. In about 300 hours I missed pressure on one flight - a cross country to Florida at night in weather. I was missing the 421 on that flight for sure. I wear a nose hose (oxyarm with O2D2) every flight so I don't feel a difference at work.

I did not miss the 421, however, when I flew the Navajo all year with no unscheduled maintenance and ended up with a low price annual which included rotors, tires, an accumulator, and a few upgrades. The plane is in the dirt every month with the Flying Sams. Its the ultimate useful hauler. The pilot door and double cargo door are sweet. Its systems are designed for line maintenance which means all of the parts are very accessible, versus working around a pressure vessel.

These birds serve two different missions. I should also note all of my experience is with the 350HP Navajo.

I've been up over a day, so my mind is a little fuzzy. We were at 32", 1990RPM, 18.5/18.5 and LOP. That should be about 70% if my match is tight. TAS was around 220 if I remember right.

Jason

I fly and manage a 414AW.

I also occasionally fly a short body Navajo with the 350 HP Panther Lock & Key conversion.

The 414A flies like a Ferrari. The outboard wing section came from the Citation 500, so it handles more like a jet. My minimum runway is 4,000'.

The Navajo flies like a dump truck, plus switching fuel tanks inboard to outboard is an added task. The Navajo is very nose heavy and is hard to land smoothly, but it can utilize runways much shorter than the 414A.

I much prefer the 414A. It is a real pleasure to fly.
The Navajo is not much fun. Its handling qualities leave a lot to be desired.

Interesting analysis. Its like comparing two 1 ton pickups by their cornering ability.

Try more up trim on landing the Navajo. Do you have VGs?

Weird...I can grease the Navajo on when I try, even in high winds. I can also hold the nose off for a long time after the mains are down, so not sure what you are experiencing.

Chester, I'm enjoying reading about all the options from real owners. It sounds like a fun adventure for you. I just keep coming back to budget limit. Has the wife ever commented about her husband needing the safety and comfort when he charters a Gulfstream while he wants her and the kids to travel in an old twin piston?? She should have "the talk" and get him to buck up for at least a king air. Just seemed like something that would be difficult for most guys to pull off.


Mom, dad, 5 kids plus pilot? So 8 seatbelts needed?

Run the W&B carefully if that's a hard requirement - and consider a chieftain. My 421B had two seats in the back that were nearly unusable with anything but a toddler.[/quote]

Interestingly it's the Wife, and her business, who is pushing this... the Husband "doesn't like little planes" so the plan is it would be with out the dad... so really 7 including pilot.
Husband and his business success leans more towards chartering a Gulfstream... however smaller than a 737 he's not happy.
With that being said... Based on the stature of mom and dad and family history... I don't suspect these children to ever grow above 120#s... so weight shouldn't be much of an issue... especially since they are all under 8 years old.
I'm thinking Chieftain is direction to be looking as far as the Piper is considered.[/quote]

I like both. Have flown a 421B and a fair amount of time in 340. I've driven a ferrari. I've never heard any one say that any Cessna drove like a Ferrari. Could the 414 be an entirely different experience?