Hello All,

I am a newly certificated pilot with 85 hours in c172's. I am now flying an arrow for hp and complex endorsement then straight into ifr training. I am located in Fredericksburg, Virginia and am looking for bonanza instructors. After I receive ifr cert I will be looking into bonanza 33 or 36 purchase. Are there any instructors out there I can learn in bonanza without having a plane yet?
Thanks for any help

Welcome to Beech Talk Clay, congrats on your newly minted pilot cert, and good luck on your quest to find that new to you Bonanza, you've come to the right place,

Clay,

Welcome to BT. I brought an airplane home from Shannon airport 2 years ago (my Skybolt). Don't know any instructors in your area, but check with ABS (American Bonanza Society). They should be able to give you some information. Good Luck and congrats on the PP ticket.

First, welcome. If you equate "opinions" with "advice" you have hit the jackpot here

With respect to moving into the Bonanza, I'd go ahead and start looking now if you're planning to get one. I completed my primary training in a C172, bought my A36 and did my instrument work in it. That way I was training in the aircraft I was planning to fly, and it resulted in significantly more "transition training" since the instrument instructor was an experienced A36 pilot.

YMMV. It depends on timing and availability of a qualified instructor.

My point is that you shouldn't assume it's best to finish your IFR before you get the Bonanza. It *is* important that you finish your IFR before you do any serious flying with the Bonanza. It is fast enough and travels far enough to move you from one air mass to another quickly and you need to be able to deal with changes like that.

So, if you do get the Bonanza while still training you should take that into account. Restrict yourself to what you'll do in it until you get up to speed.

Dan

thanks guys!

I am like a lot of others out there due to the fact that I really want a bo but am not sure whether to go c182 or piper arrow first then move up. I will say I definitely like the low wing look, view, ability to handle turbulence, and landing characteristics.

I am quite concerned about purchasing "too much plane" as I am a low time pilot. I have read alot of books on the topic and both bonanza books.

A big part of my decision can be helped if I can find a really good bonanza instructor close to me.

Welcome to BT.

You'll get plenty of what your looking for here that's FOR sure.

If you've not been fo r a flight, perhaps someone here might take you up, but also another organization ABS, has Beech Ambassadors, who are ready to give you more advice than you thought possible.

Find that here: http://www.bonanza.org/Test-Flight/

If you're planning to get a Bonanza at some point you might as well go ahead and get it.

With respect to "too much plane", you've overcome most of that problem by recognizing that you need to deal with the difference. It's not hard, and the transition comes quickly, if you recognize the differences and plan for them.

I actually took delivery of my A36 before I could get my private checkride scheduled (heart attack territory for the insurance guy<g>) but I recognized my position and dealt with it seriously. I had expected to be finished with the checkride but it didn't work out. Between weather and the "old" examiner retiring and me finding another examiner I had maybe 65 or 70 hours total at the time. I didn't fly the Bonanza myself until I finished the checkride (now THAT was hard!).

In short, if you are taking your transition seriously it will be no problem for you. If you think you can just jump in and go then you probably shouldn't be doing it yet. Plan on 20 or so hours dual transition, as a new pilot, before you go off in it day vfr. Starting your instrument in that airplane results in a LOT more transition, where you will learn more tips about dealing with stuff.

If you were here in East Texas I'd have the perfect instructor for you. I have 1600 or 1700 hours and still schedule him to beat up on me every fall before the really cruddy weather starts.

Dan

You mentioned a lot more transition. Do you suggest getting instrument training in the Bo?

Clay, might just as well get the IR Ticket in the Bo, with a really good instructor.
By the time you get that IR in the Bo you will be well versed.

If you're planning to get a Bonanza at some point you might as well go ahead and get it.



I agree. I was in your position 18 months ago getting my private ticket in a 7eca citabria. Bought a 35 with all the mods and a monster engine tied to the firewall. Did my transition training, high perf., and complex in my own 35 and now working on my instrument. I have a BPPP instructor nearby and train with him. If you find a similar situation, do it as long as his teaching style fits you. I figured I get instrument and bppp at the same time.

Aircraft market may fall a bit more but it's a great time to buy.
With respect to "too much plane", you've overcome most of that problem by recognizing that you need to deal with the difference. It's not hard, and the transition comes quickly, if you recognize the differences and plan for them.

I actually took delivery of my A36 before I could get my private checkride scheduled (heart attack territory for the insurance guy<g>) but I recognized my position and dealt with it seriously. I had expected to be finished with the checkride but it didn't work out. Between weather and the "old" examiner retiring and me finding another examiner I had maybe 65 or 70 hours total at the time. I didn't fly the Bonanza myself until I finished the checkride (now THAT was hard!).

In short, if you are taking your transition seriously it will be no problem for you. If you think you can just jump in and go then you probably shouldn't be doing it yet. Plan on 20 or so hours dual transition, as a new pilot, before you go off in it day vfr. Starting your instrument in that airplane results in a LOT more transition, where you will learn more tips about dealing with stuff.

If you were here in East Texas I'd have the perfect instructor for you. I have 1600 or 1700 hours and still schedule him to beat up on me every fall before the really cruddy weather starts.

Dan

Clay, you are following much the same line of training I took. I have around 50 hours in 182's, and 10 in an Arrow for my commercial. A Bonanza is VASTLY easier to handle and land than either the Arrow or the 182. Plus the landing gear is MUCH more robust. Both the 182 & Arrow have their good points also. Once the Arrow finally gets in the air, I like it's handling. The 182 is the best blend of a plane that excels at nothing, but can do a little of everything. (including being so nose heavy that I think only mooneys have more front wheel repairs and prop strikes)

You do not state your age or financial condition. If you are truly ready to buy a plane, save your self a lot of money in two ways. Even if you had more hours, your insurance company is going to want you to have a lot of dual in the Bo. Kill two birds with one stone. Get the plane, get your IFR in it with a instructor that is both CFII and with Bonanza time. You will then be VERY proficient in your plane and the insurance company will be thrilled. You will also have fulfilled the #1 money saving rule in aviation. Buy your last plane first.

You will find PLENTY of 182 & arrow drivers that either openly wish or secretly wish they were flying a Bo. But I have yet to meet the man flying a Bo that wishes he was flying a 182 or Arrow.

Yes, I recommend doing your instrument training in the Bo. If you plan to buy an airplane to keep and fly I'd recommend you do your instrument training in that airplane, whatever it is.

Instrument training is all about procedure and precision flying. When you do your instrument training in one type of airplane you're going to have to rethink your procedures and the airplane will fly differently. You'll be flying by the numbers (speeds, engine conditions, etc) Why not go ahead and do it in the airplane you're going to live in?

On an ILS as an example, if you do your instrument training in a C172 you're probably going to be flying around 80 or 90ks. You will be adjusting the engine RPM at glideslope intercept to start down. If you're flying a Bo, you'll be flying 110 or 120kts with the airplane all set up and all you do is drop the gear to start down. By the way, don't let the higher speed on final scare you because it's actually *easier* than flying it slower.

Dan

Hi Clay,

Welcome to BT!

Congrats on your Bo thoughts. I think in this market you want to be a sharp buyer one time and get the Bonanza, being a seller of your "transition" plane will not be a fun experience and then you will have to "debug" two airplanes.

Get the Bo, debug it and make it perfect for you and be done with buying for a while. Fly and enjoy. Good that you have been reading up on the Bo. One thing is for sure, when you push the nose down she will build speed in a hurry. I'm not bashful about pulling off some power in my let down from cruise altitudes and when coming through IMC.

Just my $0.02

Mike

Clay,
I got my PPL in January (had 75 hours at the conclusion of the check ride), bought a Bo in late February, put it in the shop to upgrade the panel, was required by insurance to fly 15 hours dual and 10 hours solo before carrying passengers. I found a great BPPP instructor here for the dual and have 7 of the 10 solo hours done after today...will finish that next week.

I intend to pursue my IFR ticket post haste. My original intent was to use the 15 hours to get started on it but I quickly found out I had enough to learn about the Bo and my brain was too full to worry much about instrument training. It is faster, it does have more moving parts, but it is a joy to fly and when it starts clicking you will find yourself grinning...a lot.

So obviously my advice is get the Bo, do the dual, get your IFR in that plane...you will not regret it.

Guys

Thanks so much for all the input. I am 45 with wife and 3 kids. Kids 15,13,10 boys. We charter larger planes when we travel from va to fla. So I don't feel will travel with full family very often. . I think that 90 percent of my travel will be with me solo or a couple passengers. Hopefully I can get my wife in the plane someday! should I go a36 or f33. I have studied the weight/balance issues of 33. Of course I have many thoughts on my usage but know things will change with time. I will be traveling back and forth from Virginia to Florida bi monthly. Most other trips for now will be under 3 hours.

How scary is the transition to faster more complex plane from c172? Also read that post 84 have better stall characteristics. Thanks again for input.